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2019-04-29 09:54:33

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

Anti-Vaccine Japan Has World's Lowest Child Death Rate, Highest Life Expectancy
Neon Nettle
by admin on Neon Nettle

Citizens of Japan are statistically proven to be the healthiest and longest-living people in the world. The country also has the lowest infant mortality rate on the planet. It may come as no surprise to many that the Japanese Government banned a number of vaccines that are currently mandatory in the United States and has strict regulations in place for other Big Pharma drugs and vaccines in general.

Множу биты на байты wrote the following post Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:00:35 +0300

К вопросу о прививках

К вопросу о прививках

В Японии самая низкая в мире детская смертность. А всё потому, что японцы запретили большую часть детских прививок (обязательных в Америке), и ввели жёсткое регулирование вместо общераспространённых вакцин.

Подробности в статье: https://neonnettle.com/features/1483-anti-vaccine-japan-has-world-s-lowest-child-death-rate-highest-life-expectancy

#antivaxx #antivax #asia #capitalism #health #japan #revision #vaccination #usa

english russian

show all 33 comments

2019-04-29 17:30:35

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

Sure, in an island country with mild climate that has perfect sanitation, where physical contact is almost frowned upon, and where people stay at home or cover their faces with discardable masks whenever they fear having a harmless flu, who needs vaccines? ;D

2019-04-29 18:47:40

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

who needs vaccines? ;D

This is not a good joke, @Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Philippines is an island country too. But their goverment needs vaccines, their children died from vaccines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/philippines-dengue-fever-vaccine-children-immunisation-dengvaxia-sanofi-pasteur-a8088561.html

Philippines prepared for 'worst-case scenario' after 733,000 given dengue vaccine that could worsen disease
Out of more than 211,000 suspected cases of dengue fever in the Philippines last year, at least 1,000 people had died, according to government figures.

2019-04-29 18:52:50

Мальчиш-Кибальчиш

eosphor@privet.su

Самая низкая детская смертность в Исландии

https://gtmarket.ru/ratings/child-mortality-rate/info

2019-04-29 18:56:37

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

Наверно и абсолютная рождаемость в Монако одна из самых низких, или может самая низкая. Нет рождаемости - нет и детской смертности.

2019-04-29 20:00:09

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

It would be nice if you followed through all the facts.

Philipines, an island of warm climate and very low sanitation standards, which already has an epidemia of the disease, used a first version of a vaccine, for a disease that has resisted for decades all attempts of developping a vaccine. They decided to deploy it in large scale, without proper testing, possibly out of a mix of desperation and economic pressure. It did not work as expected and caused a public health disaster.

There is nothing surprising in the above story, and nothing that supports a claim that "vaccines are generally bad".

Vaccines are complicated. Many save lives, others can also do harm and must be improved. Just like any other medication has possible side effects.

Of course, the big issue is that people may be required to take vaccines. That comes from an ethical problem inherent to infectious diseases: if you're sick you also make other people more likely to be sick. So decisions regarding your health implicates society, and therefore may be considered to be not only yours.

If you believe there are better ways to handle infectious diseases, talk about those, no need to argue with exagerated points of view about how some vaccines don't work. Of course they don't, nothing works all the time, but they can get improved.

Yes, maybe using trangenic mosquitoes works better to stop dengue ? Maybe improving sanitation ? Maybe stopping climate change ? Maybe reducing economic inequality ? Are we also testing those methods? Are they viable ? Those are questions that need to be answered before blanket criticizing vaccination out of occasional failures.

I think Japan is admirable. I also know that what Japan achieved is completely irrealistic in most countries that suffer from infectious dieseases, because of climate, of poverty, of culture, of (lack of) education and other factors.

Cheers =)

2019-04-29 20:08:00

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

It would be nice if you followed through all the facts.

Ok:

Bill Gates: Over this decade, we believe unbelievable progress can be made, in both inventing new vaccines and making sure they get out to all the children who need them. […] we only need about six or seven more — and then you would have all the tools to reduce childhood death, reduce population growth, and everything — the stability, the environment — benefits from that.

Those are questions that need to be answered before blanket criticizing vaccination out of occasional failures.

System and regilar failures.

Your sincere and convincing rhetoric on this topic show you as supporter of Bill Gates, in my opinion.

Let's check it:
@Alexandre Hannud Abdo, do you think the planet is overpopulated? Would you like to reduce the population of this planet?

2019-05-01 15:44:21

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

I have honestly no idea what you're trying to imply.

And I really don't care what Bill Gates thinks, I probably agree and disagree with him on different issues just like anyone.

I think overpopulation is an issue. I don't think there is a one size fits all solution. I also think there are other more serious problems that once resolved will also help alleviate population pressure. At the same time, we must not ignore the finitude of the world's resources and how it impacts this and other issues.

The paper you link to has a sample size and methodology that is inconclusive from even a very flexible statistical perspective. And that is not a problem with the paper, it is how most of medical science works: researchers report any anomaly and any possibility of cause and effect they can find. This is expected to include a lot of false positives and false negatives and rare events. Single studies of small number of cases, in isolation, do not give away facts. They are supposed to accumulate evidence for later evaluation, not to let us conclude things. Even large scale controlled studies must be replicated with different populations in different conditions to be considered factual.

2019-05-01 16:40:56

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

I think overpopulation is an issue.

This is a deliberate lie with which the Westerners spread their influence. This is the basis of their capitalist Social-Darwinian principles. That is why supporters of anthropogenic depopulation (like Bill Gates) are an ardent supporters of forced subcutaneous vaccinations at the discretion of governments. This is one of the ways to control population. In the central Asia there are registered cases when forced sterilization of women occurred under the guise of vaccinations.
Those who accept this social Darwinism - they accept forced government vaccinations, as my personal experience shows. Those who do not believe that the planet is overcrowded are not often supporters of vaccinations. I think it happens unconsciously.

2019-05-03 21:55:11

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

I'm sorry, but now you are both misrepresenting what I said, and you also seem delirious on this matter.

As an example, one could just as well argue the exact opposite: that not caring about overpopulation at all is how you implement social darwinism: let they grow in numbers and fight over resources so only the strongest will survive. That is actually how you do darwininsm experiments it with bacteria in petri dishes, you just let them grow.

And sure, there are cases when horrible things were associated with vaccination, where evil governments have used it as a way to do nasty things. But knowing evil governments, it seems very likely that they would have found another way to do these horrible things if they couldn't use vaccination.

So vaccination in itself is not the real issue. That is no basis for relating these things in general. Of course, we have to be careful and transparent with vaccination, we have to demand oversight and tests and research, after all it affects our health. That is what the scientific ommunity does.

And sure, if you live under an authoritarian government you sould be wary of what it wants to put under your skin, but then you should take care with everything it offers you, even food and air. And I agree we shouldn't support forced vaccination that is entirely managed by authoritarian governments and not available for inspection by population receiving them.

2019-05-04 00:11:11

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

But knowing evil governments, it seems very likely that they would have found another way to do these horrible things if they couldn't use vaccination.

I want to quote somebody:
A lot of people won't want to hear this, but...
Empowering the government to inject people against their will is far more dangerous than the measles.

Of course, we have to be careful and transparent with vaccination, we have to demand oversight and tests and research, after all it affects our health. That is what the scientific ommunity does.

Scientific ommunity work out a salary. @Alexandre Hannud Abdo, do you know who the "medical representatives" are?

And I agree we shouldn't support forced vaccination that is entirely managed by authoritarian governments and not available for inspection by population receiving them.

But the PR and justification of vaccination are beneficial to any governments. All governments are authoritarian.

2019-05-24 12:49:47

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

Не будь русским, будь свободным! wrote the following post Fri, 24 May 2019 12:09:02 +0300

Американская медицинская мафия против "русских троллей антипрививочников".

Американская медицинская мафия против "русских троллей антипрививочников".

Danil Boukhvalov сообщает:
Это признание! В академических журналах (рецензируемых, хирш-шмирш, все дела как я понимаю) публикуют статьи про то, как русские тролли распространяют антипрививочную пропаганду.

Weaponized Health Communication: Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304567

Вот я такой "русский тролль". Действительно, распространяю:
https://xaliavschik.livejournal.com/1096964.html

Давно пора разобраться с упырями-мафиозниками под вывеской "медицина США".
Кажется, Трамп уже кого-то наказал. Они ведь его сыну поставили прививку,
из-за которой развился аутизм.

2019-08-25 09:44:31

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

Skip Stein wrote the following post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 21:11:56 +0300

Fraud Behind the Polio and Smallpox Vaccines
The claims of polio eradication come with a high price to pay: the polio vaccine has caused many to suffer from paralysis, autoimmune disease, and even cancer.https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/unsuccessful-modern-medical-miracles-fraud-behind-polio-and-smallpox-vaccines

2019-08-25 17:57:21

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

Even if you believe that these cases are real and associated with the vaccine (which there is no hard evidence for), there is still the cost benefit analysis.

When I was a kid I remember meeting people who had had polio. It was, to say the least, horrible. Later I would no longer meet any, because vaccination cleared the disease from where I lived.

On the other hand, I never met someone who had suffered ill consequences from the vaccine, or who suspected a link. So even if it may happen, the balance is clearly towards one side. We're better with it than without.

But, hey, you probably already know all that. In which case you're just stubborn, and like it or not you're risking other people's lives for it.

2019-08-25 18:39:47

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Even if you believe that these cases are real

No, i don't believe that. But i admit that this may be true. I also thinks in the same way to information coming from Big Pharma. I do not believe anyone. Those who wish will have to try hard to gain my trust. It gives me an advantage, i don’t think in binary logics, i prefer probabilistic. As far as i know, the Prussian educational system forcibly for 10 years instills dual automatism of thinking. So that graduates of the assembly line of national education could be easily controlled, because they are forced to either believe or not believe. If you believe in vaccines, then you do not believe in homeopathy. If you believe in homeopathy, then you do not believe in vaccines. Everything is simple. I don’t believe in anything.

On the other hand, I never met someone who had suffered ill consequences from the vaccine, or who suspected a link. So even if it may happen, the balance is clearly towards one side. We're better with it than without.

Yes, i remember, you are a supporter of the idea of depopulation, you and your like-minded people would be better off in the world of compulsory vaccination.
I am opposed to depopulation, so i am not with you. For me and those who would not want to die and stop breeding - vaccines are optional, if necessary - we will decide when to make them, without coercion.

But, hey, you probably already know all that. In which case you're just stubborn, and like it or not you're risking other people's lives for it.

On the contrary. I do not risk anyone's life. Get yourself vaccinated every day, but don’t impose it to others. If you are promoting vaccines, be prepared to hear criticism. But if you ignore the information that vaccines are often kills, especially in the Western colonies, simply deciding to “not believe it” and stubbornly continue to bend your line - for me this means that you are just like your colonial ancestors. And i'm just another slave for you. It’s beneficial for you to promote it - you do it. I feel the danger from your initiative: compulsory vaccination. You do not want to accept my arguments, and yet you are trying to shift the responsibility for some lives onto me. This is an outright manipulation. Are not you ashamed?

2019-08-26 11:18:37

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

Again this idea of depopulation. It's funny you mention it. Over 300.000 kids *each year*, mostly in the (former) colonies, were paralysed from polio until vaccines managed to nearly erradicate it. That, for me, is the opposite of depopulation.

I would be all for optional vaccination if that worked. However, after several attempts throughout decades, polio was only successfully eradicated with a strategy of mandatory national same day mobilizations to vaccinate. Note that mandatory here in most places meant people were told it was required and explained why, not physically coerced to take vaccines.

So let me keep depopulating the planet by allowing 300.000 poor children each year to have healthy lives and plentiful of their own children. I have no problem with that :)

2019-08-26 11:53:16

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Over 300.000 kids *each year*, mostly in the (former) colonies, were paralysed from polio until vaccines managed to nearly erradicate it.

This is misinformation. It is impossible to verify. If you sincerely need to believe in this, in order to maintain your neocolonial promotion of compulsory vaccination, this does not mean that you can provide your fantasies for the argument.
With the same success, i can say that before reading the prayers of Catholic priests, 3,000,000 million children died every year and only prayer stopped mortality. Similar statements are unverifiable.

I would be all for optional vaccination if that worked. However, after several attempts throughout decades, polio was only successfully eradicated with a strategy of mandatory national same day mobilizations to vaccinate. Note that mandatory here in most places meant people were told it was required and explained why, not physically coerced to take vaccines.

Yes, you have already spoken about this more than once. Maybe your idea on this issue is effective, or maybe not. My life experience shows that you are promoting word for word ideas promoted by Big Pharma. What are you saying - I have already heard several times from medical representatives. Earlier, I asked you a question - do you know who they are. You did not answer me, preferring irresponsibility. And now, you are returning to this thread again, again promoting the theses originally formulated by BigFarma. If it is important for you to communicate with me on this topic, I don’t want to support your colonial protocol, in which you use irresponsibility (in my opinion, in an attempt to demonstrate your colonial superiority for usinhg it as argument). So, please answer to my qustion in details:

Scientific ommunity work out a salary. @Alexandre Hannud Abdo, do you know who the "medical representatives" are?

Please do not be irresponsible again.

So let me keep depopulating the planet

No. Enough.

2019-08-26 17:23:12

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

Well, I returned to the thread because you posted new info and I had something to add to.

Now, since you ask, and I did overlook your question before - I was possibly a bit tired, sorry - I do know them. I have worked with them in the two most important health research institutions in my country (Brazil) for a decade, and am still friends with a number of them.

Also, the number of worldwide polio cases per year is not misinformation, it is the result of consolidating information from worldwide diverse groups and corroborated by other sources, it suffices to search the medical literature. Although, given how long it has been, doing that today and by oneself is possible but would take a good deal of work (which shouldn't be the case, so we do need, and many are working for, more openness in today's science). I also happen to have worked with senior researchers who at the time had worked in producing these data for my country and reviewed other countries' work.

Most if not all of the people I have worked with in these places are humble, self-sacrificing, and I would even say anti-establishment people, who favor transparency and social control of both government and big pharma.

Also, not that it matters that much, but as a direct consequence of the dedication of those people, Brazil could produce it's own polio vaccines and not depend on big pharma.

To my knowledge, most academic medical researchers are well minded and courageous people who see supervising the abuses of both government and big pharma as part of their role. It helps that medical doctors enjoy a lot of independence because of their high status in society and ease to find jobs.

I'm not saying every one of them is righteous, there is of course no lack of documented cases of colusion with bad interests, but that is really the exception in a much larger enterprise. And even then the bad stuff rarely, if ever, has worldwide impact because the larger the scale the more people not sold to bad interests get involved.

So, the reality I know first hand is very far from the antagonistic scenario you propose. Of course I cannot guarantee what I know generalizes to the rest of the world, but I did work in the USA, and work now in France, and have met people from around the world in congresses, and they all seem to share similar attitudes. I hope this answers your question.

I won't bother your thread again if you don't find my comments useful.

Cheers!

2019-08-26 17:53:00

Chloe

starrychloe@fsphub.org

Mandatory vaccines are bad because the USA National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program shields big pharmaceutical companies and limits liability from incompetence and malfeasance.

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html The first 1-2 mandatory vaccines might be ok but if a giant corporation can instantly generate $1 billion of revenue with no risk of being sued they will lobby to make more & more vaccines mandatory and eventually 1 will kill millions of people. Also if an evil government comes into power they will force vaccines and exterminate populations like the Nazis did medical experiments on Jews.

2019-08-26 18:20:57

spacedream

spacedream@pod.disroot.org

Their vaccines making damages on brain in long term, and even in short term in some cases.. But no one did published results of that researches, if they was once even done in past, of course. IF YOU WANT ENSLAVE WHOLE PLANET - CREATE PLAN HOW TO KEEP PEOPLE BUSY! ;) even if they will be busy by killing each other... until they BUSY - you are in control.

2019-08-26 21:32:55

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

I have worked with them in the two most important health research institutions in my country (Brazil) for a decade, and am still friends with a number of them.

Well, then that explains everything. You're used to helping your colleagues. You're in business.

To my knowledge, most academic medical researchers are well minded and courageous people who see supervising the abuses of both government and big pharma as part of their role. It helps that medical doctors enjoy a lot of independence because of their high status in society and ease to find jobs.

It's not in the interest of BigPharma. This option is excluded.

I'm not saying every one of them is righteous, there is of course no lack of documented cases of colusion with bad interests, but that is really the exception in a much larger enterprise.

I don't believe in fairy tales. I doubt you believe it yourself. Medicine in the conditions of capitalism is just a business. Just a business, and nothing more.

Of course I cannot guarantee what I know generalizes to the rest of the world, but I did work in the USA, and work now in France, and have met people from around the world in congresses, and they all seem to share similar attitudes.

That's not surprising. This is how colonialism works. They take you on a tour of the metropoly, show you how well their vaccination works to make you a sincere follower of the idea, for promotion it in your home country. But your homeland is not part of "the golden billion". And as a result, it can all work out like with GMOs in Argentina or India. The U.S. has been promoting high-tech GMO seeds that will save all hungry people. But after the traditional seed base was lost, subsidies ran out and farmers had to borrow to buy GMO seeds. This was a suicide epidemic among farmers.
I'm sure you didn't talk to Uzbek doctors. You don't want to know what they can tell you. I can tell you that:

https://dissidentvoice.org/2018/03/the-true-stories-that-fake-news-tells-the-forced-sterilization-of-women/

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/uploads/9b3b427b-444b-4ba4-9a33-160a31932976/sterilization-uzbek-20131212.pdf
It's doing fraudulently, under the guise of mandatory vaccination. Keep in mind that your democratic politicians, thanks to your current efforts to promote the vaccination business, will at some point feel that Brazil is overpopulated and your children probably will be sterilized like Uzbeks.

I hope this answers your question.

Yes. I thought you didn't know how the medical business works, who the medical representatives are and what their profession is. But it turned out that you not only know, but also participate in it.

2019-08-26 21:37:40

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Chloe

Also if an evil government comes into power they will force vaccines and exterminate populations like the Nazis did medical experiments on Jews.

I have not heard of a any good government yet. All the governments that i heard about are evil.
If you take this position, then the conclusion suggests itself: current governments force vaccines and exterminate populations nowadays.

2019-08-26 21:48:16

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo Just a business, and nothing more.

Dhan Hurley wrote the following post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 21:39:29 +0300

2019-08-29 17:20:24

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

Hi there.

Yeah, I unfortunately already expected you would discredit my arguments on the basis that I actually have first hand knowledge of how the health care system works in several places across the world, and not only speculation based on news and fear.

I don't deny the colonialist relationships that exist between big corporations plus their home colonial states versus the colonized world. But there are limits to what these relationships can actually operate, and these limits are quite strict in health care, where knowledge is well distributed and the human agents are autonomous people who are well informed and very concerned by human life and well being.

Compare that to mining, logging, or even agriculture (net of activist cooperative movements like MST and Via Campesina), and you'll see what I mean.

In the context of health care, the colonial relationships can operate by reinforcing and exploiting economic inequalities, on the cost of health care, and somewhat on the quality of products. And all these things are recognized and discussed in the medical litterature. But, it would not be able to operate on large scale malicious effects, like you fear. Hundreds, if not thousands, of professionals in several different posistions and hierarchies and places would be aware from day one and would be calling on those things, even if governments tried to interfere.

I also happen to know that first hand, since the current shitty Brazilian government tried - and failed - to supress research results from the lab I used to work with. Now of course, as we have already discussed, if you live in a cruel dictatorship with no free speech you shouldn't trust anything from the government, but that is no longer an issue with health care.

Anyway, I hope you're not too comfortable in your bubble. =)

Abraços!

2019-08-29 19:18:59

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Now of course, as we have already discussed, if you live in a cruel dictatorship with no free speech you shouldn't trust anything from the government, but that is no longer an issue with health care.

All governments are cruel dictatorships with no free speech.

Anyway, I hope you're not too comfortable in your bubble.

What exactly did you sell with your fellow medical representatives? Pharmacy, diagnostics, anything else?
I don't quite know what bubble you're talking about. It's important for me to understand if you've been involved in the drug trade of BigPharna and are trying to write yourself an indulgence or something else here. Please don't be irresponsible, and tell what exactly you sold with medical advertising agents.

2019-08-30 11:23:33

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/10/health/samoa-mmr-baby-deaths-intl/index.html
The Samoan government has launched an inquiry into the deaths of two one-year-old infants after a routine vaccination.
The babies were brought to Safotu Hospital in Savai'i on Friday, where they died within minutes of the receiving the MMR vaccine, Television New Zealand reported.

2019-08-31 11:35:04

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

> I don't quite know what bubble you're talking about.

I didn't mean it in a strictly negative way, I mean everybody has their own bubble one way or another and the important thing is not be too comfortable in it.

> It's important for me to understand if you've been involved in the drug trade of BigPharna and are trying to write yourself an indulgence or something else here. Please don't be irresponsible, and tell what exactly you sold with medical advertising agents.

Sure. I never sold anything and never worked within or with big pharma. I worked in public universities, public hospitals, and public institutions that do epidemiologic monitoring and produce not-for-profit medicines.

Just random thoughts now:

I'm not in love with government either, and of course it is a vehicle of corporate/elite power. But I haven't yet seen a good plan for getting rid of it without corporations taking full control. Especially in the current context of extreme corporate power, and even fetishism of corporations by many. For now I think we still need public institutions that enjoy independency. Ironically, private universities are usually less independent than government ones. I have been exploring alternatives like hackerspaces and other collectives, but they are still too imature and too small. Another way is for universities and research institutions to get much closer to the people and get direct support for them (and depend less on the govt, or corporations), which is also happening but not in a significant scale.

Abraços

2019-08-31 12:35:41

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

I didn't mean it in a strictly negative way, I mean everybody has their own bubble one way or another and the important thing is not be too comfortable in it.

You mean everybody. So you're saying you're comfortable in your bubble and you understand that? Or are you not everybody?
For example, i am not comfortable with this bubble of capitalism, colonialism, democracy (forcing minorities to obey the laws of the majority or vice versa), commercial medicine, forced vaccination etc etc. I am not everybody.

Sure. I never sold anything and never worked within or with big pharma. I worked in public universities, public hospitals, and public institutions that do epidemiologic monitoring and produce not-for-profit medicines.

I asked you to tell me exactly, you avoided a specific answer. As far as i'm concerned, it looks like you're trying to mislead me. Let's check it out, please specify names of your universities and hospitals - i will check its links with BigFarma.

I'm not in love with government either, and of course it is a vehicle of corporate/elite power. But I haven't yet seen a good plan for getting rid of it without corporations taking full control.

As far as i'm concerned, you're a descendant of colonizers, not locals in Brazil. As far as i know, descendants of Europeans enjoy colonial privileges in the Western colonies of America, unlike of most descendants of Indians and Metises. It follows from this that you probably have some privileges. So opinions that threaten to lose the inherited privileges for you - you just do not consider. There are so many alternatives to government coercion without corporations taking full control - but the vast majority of those imply abandoning colonial privileges. I think that's the reason why you insist on not seeing all these good plans.

2019-08-31 17:20:32

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

So many accusations.

Why make vague questions and then complain about the answers not being precise.

Why accuse me of hiding information I have in good part already offered and which is openly available, even through my profile. If you're interested in some specific detail, ain't there more friendly and effective ways to ask.

Why assume my origin or family history. For one you're wrong about me being of European origin. Why assume you know other people's countries better than they do before you listen to them.

Why assume you know absolutely better than myself about anarchist alternatives if we didn't discuss that. How do you know I'm not taking into account what you have in mind.

How do you want to establish a dialogue based only on your terms and speaking like a judge. Ain't that your bubble, and are you're quite happy and comfortable in it.

Well, I'm tired of this agressive mood. I have assumed good faith and still am, although I know I also have not been perfect in my communication. I also want to say I learned something from this conversation. I hope you found some use from it too. But I am done for now. :)

All the best .~'

2019-08-31 22:53:11

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

So many accusations.

But i'm not blaming you. I just call things by their names, i don't use the substitution of concepts common in the West. Medical representatives are the heart of commercial medicine. I had to communicate with them. Here they work as follows: they come to the doctor and say - send patients for diagnostics to us or prescribe our medicine - 30% is yours. That's if we omit down all the ceremonies. In addition, a biotechnologist i know told me how usually made permits for new drugs to be marketed in Britain and Spain.

If you're interested in some specific detail, ain't there more friendly and effective ways to ask.

That's interesting. Earlier, you tried to attribute to me personally the responsibility for the deaths of many people from illness. And now you're talking about being friendly.
If i do not respond mutually to the hostility that you have shown to me before, it will be a declaration of your superiority over me: you can attribute to me the responsibility for someone else's death, and i cannot do that to you.
I am ready to forget the context of this discussion if you apologize and say that you were wrong when you tried to attribute responsibility for someone else's death to me and you will not do it again.

How do you want to establish a dialogue based only on your terms and speaking like a judge. Ain't that your bubble, and are you're quite happy and comfortable in it.

I don't like it. But this is a response to your accusations.
I show that vaccines often cause specific deaths (especially in third world countries).
And you claim that i am the cause of death because i refuse vaccination.
You can check this out, i didn't make any claims about you personally before your accusations. This is a reaction to the accusation of me personally for someone else's deaths.
As far as i understand, when you accused me, you sincerely believed you were doing a good deed, fighting heretical obscurantism. It's part of a pre-installed missionary program, and you probably didn't even notice how and why you did it. Maybe.

2019-09-01 17:17:25

Alexandre Hannud Abdo

aleabdo@hubzilla.com.br

I am sorry I said you were probably stubborn and that it meant risking people's lives. It was meant more as a warning than an accusation. As I said I did not communicate so well either.

I don't agree medical representatives are at the center of the system. For one they can only market drugs that have already seen approval, and they have to act on a one-by-one case exactly because the health system is quite decentralized. And they have no control of whether a specific doctor is prescribing a specific drug. Also they do not reward doctors everywhere. I know it used to happen in Brazil but it has since been suppressed, including paying for travel to events. But I agree they have a significant negative impact in some cases. They probably played a role in the current opioid crisis of some USA states, although other causes like marketing directly to the public were equally strong.

I agree, as does the medical community in general, that the process of drug approval has problems. It relies too much on information and influence coming straight from big pharma, in part simply because it is too expensive to do parallel studies. This is something that is known and actively scrutinized in medical literature, and something that needs more activism and where activism can be quite effective. But, from what I can tell, it is not so bad that super bad stuff would get through. Although mildly bad stuff does, even if rarely. And point two, more importantly, drug approval is only one step in a much larger process of research and practice that keeps track of what is happening around any drug that gets to market. So yes, failures can lead people to take unnecessary, even dangerous, medicine in the rare occasion that every protective measure fails. Yet even then, it will very likely be spotted once the negative consequences start to appear.

So, my opinion is that even the worst case scenario is really far from being able to put in place something so bad and for so long that it would have an impact at the scale of depopulating a country; or even have a strong net negative effect on any population (peple saved less people killed by a medicine's effect). And I think having that model in mind makes activism less effective because it distracts from dealing with more certain dangers. Dangers like lack of sanitation and education, which have more impact than most medicines, and lack of investment in finding cures for diseases that affect the poor.

Abraço!

2019-09-02 16:51:08

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

@Alexandre Hannud Abdo

Although mildly bad stuff does, even if rarely.

Not rarely:

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/58/9/1205/2895266

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-10-syria-vaccine-deaths-ngo.html

https://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1264405-v-ukrayini-vid-koreyskoyi-vaktsini-proti-gepatitu-v-pomerla-lyudina

http://www.aloqada.com/m/news/2012/10/04/vetsluzhba_uzbekistana_vakcina_vyzvavshaya_padezh_skota_v_kirgizii_byla_vvezena_iz_kazakhstana

http://www.trud.ru/article/10-02-2009/221943_mladentsa_ubila_privivka.html

https://belaruspartisan.by/life/436298/

https://dumskaya.net/news/pogib-rebenok-017794/

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2175836/chinese-boy-dies-after-being-given-mmr-vaccine

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/07/samoa-mmr-vaccine-death-mother-wants-answers-after-tragedy.html

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/mr-vaccine-autopsy-not-done-kin-cry-foul/585494.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/philippines-dengue-fever-vaccine-children-immunisation-dengvaxia-sanofi-pasteur-a8088561.html

BigPharma works in purpose to hide it, so mass consumer see 'rarely of it':

https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-anti-vaccine-crack-down/

2019-09-23 18:48:36

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

NaturalNews Diaspora wrote the following post Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:10:06 +0300

The Bill Gates-funded evil that is parading in broad daylight https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-09-22-gates-epstein-connection-was-depopulation-eugenics.html

#billgates #vaccine #health #depopulation

2022-06-12 12:12:05

ivan zlax

zlax@ussr.win

https://digital.ahrq.gov/sites/default/files/docs/publication/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-2011.pdf

Preliminary data were collected from June 2006 through October 2009 on 715,000 patients, and 1.4 million doses (of 45 different vaccines) were given to 376,452 individuals. Of these doses, 35,570 possible reactions (2.6 percent of vaccinations) were identified. This is an average of 890 possible events, an average of 1.3 events per clinician, per month. These data were presented at the 2009 AMIA conference.
In addition, ESP:VAERS investigators participated on a panel to explore the perspective of clinicians, electronic health record (EHR) vendors, the pharmaceutical industry, and the FDA towards systems that use proactive, automated adverse event reporting.
Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed. Barriers to reporting include a lack of clinician awareness, uncertainty about when and what to report, as well as the burdens of reporting: reporting is not part of clinicians’ usual workflow, takes time, and is duplicative. Proactive, spontaneous, automated adverse event reporting imbedded within EHRs and other information systems has the potential to speed the identification of problems with new drugs and more careful quantification of the risks of older drugs.
Unfortunately, there was never an opportunity to perform system performance assessments because the necessary CDC contacts were no longer available and the CDC consultants responsible for receiving data were no longer responsive to our multiple requests to proceed with testing and evaluation.